Apollyon12
Active member
I did a search and all I came up with was that some guy named Tucker and Alen Berry Race Cars are the only peole locally that build/install roll cages or roll bars. I am thinking about a few possiblities and I would like to pick somebodys brain about what the different race specs and what is required for them. I am fairly sure that I am never going to get into any actual racing, be it rally or road course, but being the type of person who likes to do things right the first time, I don't want to screw myself by doing something and then learn that it's nowhere near where it needs to be. I am well aware of what it will take to put a full cage in any vehicle, and the kind of commitment that will require.
My line of thinking is as follows:
1) I would really like to have a harness for AutoX. The stock one does work but can be uncomfortable and everybody who has one seems to like them.
2) Do I get just one for me or do I get two. I don't usually take a co-driver but there is always the possibility for it. If having one is cool, two is better, right?
3) The actual facts about safety . If the harness has too much of a downward angle (the numbers seem to differ depending on whom you listen to) you can have spinal compaction and other issues after a crash. Mounting on the floor behind the seat is out, and mounting to the back seat attachment points may still be a problem. (I can't seem to get a definite answer to this, and of course in a wagon there are no baby seat mounting points on the back deck like the sedan. Which begs the question: Could I attach something to the hold down points at the back of the trunk and run the strap over the back seat, thus changing the angle of the strap after my shoulders to something closer to horizontal.)
Also without a roll bar/cage, if you roll, the harness can keep you in an upright position and the weight of the car can crush you and the seat.
4) A harness bar attached to the upper belt mount on the pillar does not seem to fix the angle issue. In theory the belts still needs to go through the hole (or between the head rest bars) in the seat. So they might be at a downward angle for me but on somebody larger, the could still be an issue. This, of course, does not touch the roll-over issue.
5) So if I don't want to do a roll bar or full cage, the harness should ONLY be used on the AutoX course and NEVER on the street.
6) Whether I get one or two harnesses, I will probably be asked to use the stock harness during any training or instructors will not use the second harness. So there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of value to having a second harness except for the cool factor. "Passengers, you are on your own, the O-***** handle it right there."
7) Do I spend the money to get one of the Schroth Quick Fit ($225) or Quick Fit Pro ($325), which can be removed from the car (stealth) and used only on race days. Or do I get a couple cheaper ones like the Rallye belts ($150) which are permanent installs. (And somebody has a pair for sale on Ebay for cheap, reserve set at $150 for the pair) So in the end I get the same thing but I am paying another $75 for the ability to remove the harness and store it when I am not using it.
8) The other alternative, and the one that I need the most info on, would be to get or make a roll bar that would allow the functionality of the wagon to be maintained but have a mounting bar at the correct location for the harnesses as well as some roll-over protection. This would be the "Do-It-Right-The-First-Time" option. Perhaps one could still use the Quick Fit belts but I think a giant roll cage would remove the stealth elements. In any event, the point would be to use the right equipment in the right manner for the right job. Protecting you in all situations.
My guess would be that for a weekend warrior it is totally impractial to try to meet any race standard, but what I would like to know is whether it would in fact be possible to make a minimal roll bar that will do the job and be able to be added on to in the future if it became a total track car.
My line of thinking is as follows:
1) I would really like to have a harness for AutoX. The stock one does work but can be uncomfortable and everybody who has one seems to like them.
2) Do I get just one for me or do I get two. I don't usually take a co-driver but there is always the possibility for it. If having one is cool, two is better, right?
3) The actual facts about safety . If the harness has too much of a downward angle (the numbers seem to differ depending on whom you listen to) you can have spinal compaction and other issues after a crash. Mounting on the floor behind the seat is out, and mounting to the back seat attachment points may still be a problem. (I can't seem to get a definite answer to this, and of course in a wagon there are no baby seat mounting points on the back deck like the sedan. Which begs the question: Could I attach something to the hold down points at the back of the trunk and run the strap over the back seat, thus changing the angle of the strap after my shoulders to something closer to horizontal.)
Also without a roll bar/cage, if you roll, the harness can keep you in an upright position and the weight of the car can crush you and the seat.
4) A harness bar attached to the upper belt mount on the pillar does not seem to fix the angle issue. In theory the belts still needs to go through the hole (or between the head rest bars) in the seat. So they might be at a downward angle for me but on somebody larger, the could still be an issue. This, of course, does not touch the roll-over issue.
5) So if I don't want to do a roll bar or full cage, the harness should ONLY be used on the AutoX course and NEVER on the street.
6) Whether I get one or two harnesses, I will probably be asked to use the stock harness during any training or instructors will not use the second harness. So there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of value to having a second harness except for the cool factor. "Passengers, you are on your own, the O-***** handle it right there."
7) Do I spend the money to get one of the Schroth Quick Fit ($225) or Quick Fit Pro ($325), which can be removed from the car (stealth) and used only on race days. Or do I get a couple cheaper ones like the Rallye belts ($150) which are permanent installs. (And somebody has a pair for sale on Ebay for cheap, reserve set at $150 for the pair) So in the end I get the same thing but I am paying another $75 for the ability to remove the harness and store it when I am not using it.
8) The other alternative, and the one that I need the most info on, would be to get or make a roll bar that would allow the functionality of the wagon to be maintained but have a mounting bar at the correct location for the harnesses as well as some roll-over protection. This would be the "Do-It-Right-The-First-Time" option. Perhaps one could still use the Quick Fit belts but I think a giant roll cage would remove the stealth elements. In any event, the point would be to use the right equipment in the right manner for the right job. Protecting you in all situations.
My guess would be that for a weekend warrior it is totally impractial to try to meet any race standard, but what I would like to know is whether it would in fact be possible to make a minimal roll bar that will do the job and be able to be added on to in the future if it became a total track car.
