Tire Rant

[rsalomon13]

GIANT PREFACE - There seems to have been some confusion when I mention the limits of tires. I am not talking some slip and slide on an on-ramp or around a corner. I am talking all out loss of control, not the fact that if you throttle lift you can get some oversteer or if you juice it right in the middle the fronts break loose, that is in the drivers control. The people I am referring to are those that seem to think these errors can be corrected by more expensive tires and suspension and not by just learning to drive. Also I am not saying that there are not advantages to having upgraded suspension and tires, I can tell the difference between RE070's and blizzacks and I much prefer the RE070's. I just feel that anything I need to do could also be done on the Blizzacks. I think my whole rant can be summarized in one line: If a better driver could have made it through the corner on your current set-up then it is not the set-up that needs improving.

 

So I just have to get this off my chest and I apologize in advanced if I piss anyone off. Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, here it goes.

So I was looking at what tires to get for the summer and I was perusing reviews on tirerack, nasioc and others. Now way to many people complain that even tires in the max summer performance category break lose to easily, things along the lines of "they just feel too slippery...understeer too easily....these tires feel dangerous". Now keep in mind these are not people rallyxing or autoxing. Just those that describe themselves as "spirited drivers".

Here is my issue with all of this. I am currently running Blizzacks as I haven't switched back to summers. I drive quickly but not like a maniac. And I have yet to truly find the limit of these tires and they are goddamn winter tires. I mean, I am not a prodriver by any means but I have been taught about apexing, oversteer, understeer, as well as rev-matching, and how to heel-toe....the basics.

My question is when should anybody be driving that freakin' hard on public streets that they complain about the grip of max summer tires. I mean, sure, if I really juice it out of a corner I can feel the fronts stutter but it isn't that bad. To describe my Blizzacks much less summer tires as "dangerous" you have to driving hard and I mean HARD.

I sometimes wonder if some of these people fall into the same category as those who say they really "need" coilovers because their car doesn't handle well. I mean seriously, I think that 90% of these people(Notice I don't say all) just want to sound cool. Every kid with a freakin' STI cannot be a good enough driver that they have actually reached the max of their tires much less the stock suspension. I think some of these morons need to stop acting like they are such good drivers that they need $4000 coilovers and $350 a piece tires and just learn how to drive.

Now on to those who can drive(The other 10%). If you really are a good enough driver that you need that much grip. Please do not push your car that far while driving by my house. I will be outside, ready to rumble, when you lose it on a patch of gravel and plow into my STI parked in front.

Now, the ending disclaimer. I do drive fast, so I am not wrecking on anyone who speeds or tears up the twisties. I am just saying, you do not need to be pushing it to the limits of the Blizzacks, much less RE070's. Also if you actually take your car out, and practice, I think you will realize that you might be reaching your limits way before you reach the limits of your car, even with a complete stock setup.

Note: This is not intended for anyone on MS, just a lot of the clowns I see on Nasioc and others.

 

[topdeeni]

personally... I beleive if U drive within the confines of the law tires should not B an issue. Know what happened the last time I got nuts on a public road? I got an invitation from a Mass state trooper to go talk to a judge regarding my habits behind a wheel one bright sunny morning at my local courthouse.

As far as tires I Seem to lean towards Bridgestones for my STi and run them.. My 4Runner however lives on Michelins very happily.

I agree with U 100% on UR end disclaimer. From what I have seen most people reach the end of thier own capacities LONG before the hit the end of what their car will do. When I worked for a certain Toyota dealership the owners son had been professionally trained to drive: I have had the privelege of having what I consider to be an incredible driver scare me into needing a new diaper more than once. The best ride had to B in the $13,000 Echo, amazing what U can juice an econobox to do if U know what UR doing...well he did do a number on my nerves in a M-5 on Rte 95 one day... BTW;... he is NOT allowed to drive my stage 5..no no no

ps: Oh of course I did coilovers as well but not so much for the handing of the car. U gotta make sure UR ego can make those turns as well.

 

[Nigel Prodrive]

nabisco tire 'reviews' tend to contain large amounts of bovine fecal matter. it's easy to suffer from Analysis Paralysis and just give up and simply shop tires by price and by how they look.

all the wrangling about ultimate grippp and graDual breakaway.....not really germane to the real world.

for dd use, a tire's ability to handle all sorts of weird weather and weird road conditions (not to mention minimizing the suby's notorious tire noise) count for more than all those overblown 'reviews'

choosing tires is like choosing golf clubs or fishing lures.....everybody's a expert who sez it all depends on it 'all depends."

heh, have fun!

 

[MAINIAC XV]

First of all I would like to say I am all for for spending your own money on whatever turns you on. Freedom of choice. As for me I haven`t pushed my stock Spec B. with it`s Bilsten suspension, torsen rear end and stock 050A summer or my winter sport M3`s passed the law of physics and still was able to have sane spirted rides.

 

[Imprezah]

don't you know that everyone on the internet is a racecar driver/professional product reviewer.

 

[rsalomon13]

don't you know that everyone on the internet is a racecar driver/professional product reviewer.

I also forgot to add, if people want coilovers and awesome tires and they have the cash. More power to them. I was just saying, those who say they NEED them most likely don't. Also this is all referring to those who do not track their cars. That is a whole other ball game.

 

[Nigel Prodrive]

so....what tirArs you gonna get?

ding ding ding, your blizzaks are getting trashed driving on dry roads--time to make a decision!

 

[rsalomon13]

Yeah I know the Blizzacks are getting toasted, I think I am going to go with Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. They seem like a good balance for what I want them to be able to do. Plus they have a decent treadware rating and are affordable.

 

[Nigel Prodrive]

PZero Nero M&S??!! Those are like truck tires, they'll break into sudden snap oversteer every time u r racing thru skool zones!

good all-round choice, actually. If you resist urge to go with way wider than stock, they even work ok in the snow...mebbe as good as toasted blizzaks.

 

[rsalomon13]

So those are a decent pick? I am going 225/45-17.

 

[Nigel Prodrive]

most of the way thru my 2nd set of PZero Neros, 225/50-16s. when these are done, I'll go back to stock 205/55-16s cuz the wider size likes to chunk on inside edge of rear treads, and the correct diameter won't mess with speedo readings

 

[ruggedman]

People that buy all seasons for summer and have dedicated snows

I've spun my car with a full suspension and 235/40 star specs. It's not hard to find the limit...but in general you have to be pushing it pretty hard. A good cheap summer tire is all you need from the sounds of things. Try something like the Fuzion ZRi.

Understeer shmundersteer. Driver error and poor car setup are more likely to blame than tires

 

[Pedro]

People that buy all seasons for summer and have dedicated snows

I've spun my car with a full suspension and 235/40 star specs. It's not hard to find the limit...but in general you have to be pushing it pretty hard. A good cheap summer tire is all you need from the sounds of things. Try something like the Fuzion ZRi.

Understeer shmundersteer. Driver error and poor car setup are more likely to blame than tires

or drive a crap load of miles like some member with a white 06 rex with 99,900 miles on it.

 

[inski]

HolyJeezus does your car ever cool down?

I like the round tires. Today I put a new inner tube in a 62 Thunderbird. Talcum powder FTW!

 

[Pedro]

it gets a few cool down days in the summer when I take the miata.

gotta get it up to you guys for a Tbelt soon.

 

[svxsti]

most of the way thru my 2nd set of PZero Neros, 225/50-16s. when these are done, I'll go back to stock 205/55-16s cuz the wider size likes to chunk on inside edge of rear treads, and the correct diameter won't mess with speedo readings

...ahhh, the 225/50-16s are the same diameter as the 205/55-16s, in fact I remember them both were original to the first 911 C4.

-----Added 5/11/2009 at 08:30:24-----

And I have yet to truly find the limit of these tires and they are goddamn winter tires.

If you haven't found the limit of the Blizzaks then do yourself a favor and get yourself an 80,000 mile warranty tire, Pep Boys and Sears also do buy 3 get one free.

It's very easy to test the limits of a car on a nice long on-ramp. Personally I like to go out to the 93 and 95 clover leaf at 3am in a down pour and do some AWD power slides. I mean, what else was the STi made for.

 

[rsalomon13]

People that buy all seasons for summer and have dedicated snows

I've spun my car with a full suspension and 235/40 star specs. It's not hard to find the limit...but in general you have to be pushing it pretty hard. A good cheap summer tire is all you need from the sounds of things. Try something like the Fuzion ZRi.

Understeer shmundersteer. Driver error and poor car setup are more likely to blame than tires

The reason I am switching to an all season is that my winters are pretty worn, also I am considering a dedicated summer tire. I understand that you can find the limits of tires and suspension. I am just suggesting that most have no reason to be doing this.

I have had opportunities to beat on Crown Vics and Chargers on a closed course and in a situation such as that I was saying, these could use coilovers and awesome tires. My point is that most never actually push their cars that far.

-----Added 5/11/2009 at 08:39:54-----

It's very easy to test the limits of a car on a nice long on-ramp. Personally I like to go out to the 93 and 95 clover leaf at 3am in a down pour and do some AWD power slides. I mean, what else was the STi made for.

This is where I think there is some confusion on what I was saying, I do not consider doing powerslides on an on ramp to be the limits of the tire. You are still in control and I am assuming you haven't wrecked your car.

What I was referring to is those that claim that they cannot drive the car because it feels dangerous. I mean seriously, if you know how to control a car, breaking the tires loose is part of the fun. I do not consider sliding around a corner to be the limits, I can powerslide those blizzacks with the best of 'em.

I consider reaching the limits loosing control and taking it into the woods. This is how the reviews were talking, as if the car just slid into a ditch on it's own because RE070's aren't sticky enough. I hope this clarifys what I meant.

 

[08WRXME]

I learned about tire limits this winter actually... the stock RE-092s, a 2 day snow storm, shiny roads, and driving past the limit of the tire (30 mph into a sloping turn). I ended up in the ditch on the side of the road, looking like an idiot. I am sure most people who are still running these will tell you, they are awful in snow. but i agreee, I haven't driven to the limits of my Fierce UHP tires yet.

 

[ReZPunK]

hehe i like to think i have tested the limits of every tire i own. the snows, well they go through hell and back when they are on my cars, they often pull double duty as mild gravel and mud tires when i need a quick jaunt through the woods. the gravels take the beatings like the gravels are supposed to do.

the summers are fun but they dont like the dirt that much, lol they DO how ever provide a very predictable slide in the loose stuff.

oh yeah and on the street too...they do work ok there too. but that's where i drive safe so i dont really push them on the street.

ok so maybe a little, like after this friggin huge rear sway bar install and a good alignment i was hitting the end ramp of 395 in brewer a lot faster than i used to be able to.