bigger sway bar+ high speed corners= dead struts

I run KYB GR2 in my old POS 97 Grand AM GT. They were an excellent upgrade from the stockers, but with lowering springs I wore them out in about 3 years. With the Eibach ProKit springs and KYB-GR2 struts in front, and KYB Gas-Adjust shocks in the rear, the car tightened up phenominally. Even now, the old 97 Grand Am GT handles flatter than the 09 Subaru WRX Hatch with the stock suspension. I can't say it handles better though, I would say its a toss up as the Grand Am does not lean and is very tight in cornering, but the subaru has all wheel drive. I would say they hold the corners about equally, the Subaru has a lot of body roll compared to the Grand Am, but also has all wheel drive so the Subaru wins out hands down because it has AWD, 4 wheel independent suspension and a Turbo. I am more likely to come close to loosing control in the Grand Am than the subi, obviously, and the Grand Am feels like it can't even get out of its own way after driving the Subaru. I still can't believe that drove that Pontiac for 6 years before finally getting the Rex, best upgrade I ever made!

 
yeah....no turbo here but if i buy the struts thorugh work i get the lifetime warranty so it doesn't matter if i have to swap them out every other year..its free..i always enjoy when those grand ams come in the shop....anything with a 3.1 or a 3.4 and its instant intake gasket leak... thatll be 750 bucks please.....

 
Nigel Prodrive said:
lots of ppl are also "late countersteerers" and we can identify them pretty quick at the Team O school (usually after having to pull car out of a ditch or snowbank)
Click to expand...
I think I have a case of "early countersteerers" syndrome. I get so excited to go sideways around a corner I countersteer to much to early.... That's what caused me to go assend into trees on the last group drive.

 
kblood477 said:
will putting a bigger sway bar in the front along with the rear even it out so it wont snap over steer?
Click to expand...
theoretically yes, but YMMV.

now what some people would call "snap oversteer" is what others are purposely making their cars do when they lift off gas momentarily entering a corner to make the car start to rotate, then countersteer and get back on gas to control the slide. this is pretty easy to feel on snow or gravel but when it happens on tarmac you better catch it quick or you're going off backwards. this is also known as "lift throttle oversteer"

a car set up with a big rear bar is a total hoon machine on snow or dirt but a real handful on the street because it'll grip and grip till suddenly the back end comes loose (usu with negative and/or expensive results). on gravel or snow if you lose grip it's pretty easy to get it back; on tarmac once grip is gone it's pretty much gone and it's much more dicey to get it back. also, you're likely going so much fatser on tarmac that when stuff starts to happen, it happens really quick.

another way to explain mounting a big rear bar on a street car is, "be careful what you wish for."

 
Nigel Prodrive said:
theoretically yes, but YMMV.

now what some people would call "snap oversteer" is what others are purposely making their cars do when they lift off gas momentarily entering a corner to make the car start to rotate, then countersteer and get back on gas to control the slide. this is pretty easy to feel on snow or gravel but when it happens on tarmac you better catch it quick or you're going off backwards. this is also known as "lift throttle oversteer"

a car set up with a big rear bar is a total hoon machine on snow or dirt but a real handful on the street because it'll grip and grip till suddenly the back end comes loose (usu with negative and/or expensive results). on gravel or snow if you lose grip it's pretty easy to get it back; on tarmac once grip is gone it's pretty much gone and it's much more dicey to get it back. also, you're likely going so much fatser on tarmac that when stuff starts to happen, it happens really quick.

another way to explain mounting a big rear bar on a street car is, "be careful what you wish for."
Click to expand...
Nigel is 100000000000% correct. He knows his le poop.

I put a 25mm STi bar on my RS and the snap oversteer dumped me in a ditch. Where as with my stocker "playskools my first sway bar" along with some proper early turn in, I'm able to lift throttle oversteer my way through turns like a champ
default_cool.png


 
13 mm bar? i thought this thread died. i put a 17mm bar on my rs and seems to handle just fine with the stock 19mm front,,,ive been thinking about bumping up to a 20ish rear though......rear struts are def dead now, not due to the bar but age....

 
matt00rs2.5 said:
13 mm bar? i thought this thread died. i put a 17mm bar on my rs and seems to handle just fine with the stock 19mm front,,,ive been thinking about bumping up to a 20ish rear though......rear struts are def dead now, not due to the bar but age....
Click to expand...

bar don't mean squat if the struts are pooched. fix struts first, the 17mm bar will do what u want in the meantime.

 
i know that its pointless to upgrade any suspension component with worn or dead parts...ex. my struts......ill be swapping out a lot of parts come this spring to upgrade the suspension for better handling

 
While we are on the topic of sway bars. I have front and rear 22m sways I dare not put on until I can find the proper endlinks and struts. Hopefully dumping all this money into a good suspension will pay off. It cant go fast but hopefully it will handle better.....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am glad I found this thread. I had read about people upgrading their sway bars. I'm 75% sure that I don't have a rear sway bar. Could this be just because its a FWD. And by adding one would I gain traction? I'm thinking of keeping it small, 15mm. If it can be done.

 
CoupedUpSubie said:
I am glad I found this thread. I had read about people upgrading their sway bars. I'm 75% sure that I don't have a rear sway bar. Could this be just because its a FWD. And by adding one would I gain traction? I'm thinking of keeping it small, 15mm. If it can be done.
Click to expand...
ummm, how hard would it be to stick yer head under the back and see for sure?
default_smile.png


adding swaybar on rear of a fwd scoob would be a moderately big job, you'd probably have to change out the 2 rearmost lateral links and do some finagling to mount the bar itself to the chassis legs back there. if you don't even know what a rear swaybar looks like, it's probably best you don't try to add one yourself! tho def not to say that a decent shop couldn't handle the job.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top