The unofficial GUN talk thread
- Thread starter -=Lobstah=-
- Start date
Nate
Founding Father
I have a Ruger 22/45, and I can in NO WAY whatsoever see carrying that. Completely inadequate for self defense, and frankly silly.
Nate
Founding Father
^^^Ok... I'll have this discussion. I rather enjoy the topic. I only say this for the safety of you and anyone you may be protecting.
I say your wrong. That could possible be the least thought out reasoning I have ever seen for justification of the carrying of a .22 caliber handgun. Plain and simple I think you are better off NOT carrying at all then carrying a .22 handgun. To me it may lead you to think differently about a situation should a self defense issue arise. If you have a gun, your defense mechanism might be different then if you did not. With a .22 you should be thinking about turning and running, not staying and fighting.
First of all the accuracy of your shots, on your best day at the range (against a non moving paper target) would be diminished by 50% by the stress of the situation at hand. If you have taken any training at all, you are taught to shoot "center mass" for a reason. Its the biggest area. Relying on the fact that you can make well placed head shots is preposterous. The stresses of a defensive shooting removes your finer motor skills making it extremely difficult to hit "center mass" much less a head-shot. I just dont see the typical person being able to hit a large charging threat in the head. These shots will most likely be taken under less than perfect lighting conditions, and you may be getting shot at yourself. Simply put, if your defensive plan depends on a perfectly placed shot to the head you need a new plan.
Also the caliber is absolutely inadequate. I could go on to also add: .25, .32, and .380, all of which I do not recommend anyone carry as a self defense round. Small calibers simply do not possess the ballistic properties required to ensure an incapacitating wound, even despite near perfect shot placement. And I will again reiterate that those shots are nearly impossible to obtain while under the stresses of a defensive shooting. Will a .380 kill a human size threat? Absolutely, so could a BB gun. But most likely only if you can afford to wait several minutes for your threat to bleed-out. How will your threat spend those minutes while he is bleeding-out? Shooting at you, perhaps? You want to carry a caliber that possesses enough (incapacitating) force to take your threats will to fight away. Im not going to get into the argument that its .45 or nothing, but there are plenty of caliber choices, in a metric shat ton of guns to chose from in a "service caliber".
We carry a gun in preparation to face the last thing we ever want to have to do....shoot to defend our lives. It's only when I'm in absolute grave danger that my weapon becomes the only thing standing between myself and death. Knowing that, why wouldn't I want the absolute best tool available for the job? Your handgun can quite possibly be the only thing that gets you, and your loved ones home safely tonight. With this in mind, I hope you will carry a handgun with more stopping power potential than a .22 caliber has to offer. I want the exact same thing that you want. I want you to make it home safely and if you have to defend your life a service caliber is the better tool for the job.
I say your wrong. That could possible be the least thought out reasoning I have ever seen for justification of the carrying of a .22 caliber handgun. Plain and simple I think you are better off NOT carrying at all then carrying a .22 handgun. To me it may lead you to think differently about a situation should a self defense issue arise. If you have a gun, your defense mechanism might be different then if you did not. With a .22 you should be thinking about turning and running, not staying and fighting.
First of all the accuracy of your shots, on your best day at the range (against a non moving paper target) would be diminished by 50% by the stress of the situation at hand. If you have taken any training at all, you are taught to shoot "center mass" for a reason. Its the biggest area. Relying on the fact that you can make well placed head shots is preposterous. The stresses of a defensive shooting removes your finer motor skills making it extremely difficult to hit "center mass" much less a head-shot. I just dont see the typical person being able to hit a large charging threat in the head. These shots will most likely be taken under less than perfect lighting conditions, and you may be getting shot at yourself. Simply put, if your defensive plan depends on a perfectly placed shot to the head you need a new plan.
Also the caliber is absolutely inadequate. I could go on to also add: .25, .32, and .380, all of which I do not recommend anyone carry as a self defense round. Small calibers simply do not possess the ballistic properties required to ensure an incapacitating wound, even despite near perfect shot placement. And I will again reiterate that those shots are nearly impossible to obtain while under the stresses of a defensive shooting. Will a .380 kill a human size threat? Absolutely, so could a BB gun. But most likely only if you can afford to wait several minutes for your threat to bleed-out. How will your threat spend those minutes while he is bleeding-out? Shooting at you, perhaps? You want to carry a caliber that possesses enough (incapacitating) force to take your threats will to fight away. Im not going to get into the argument that its .45 or nothing, but there are plenty of caliber choices, in a metric shat ton of guns to chose from in a "service caliber".
We carry a gun in preparation to face the last thing we ever want to have to do....shoot to defend our lives. It's only when I'm in absolute grave danger that my weapon becomes the only thing standing between myself and death. Knowing that, why wouldn't I want the absolute best tool available for the job? Your handgun can quite possibly be the only thing that gets you, and your loved ones home safely tonight. With this in mind, I hope you will carry a handgun with more stopping power potential than a .22 caliber has to offer. I want the exact same thing that you want. I want you to make it home safely and if you have to defend your life a service caliber is the better tool for the job.
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inski
New member
I went to the Lewiston Armory. I didn't buy anything but found a couple gems I'd never seen before that I've always wanted. Didn't know anyone in Maine had those puppies.
*Ruger PC9- 3 of them at various prices. One came with 5 mags.
*Ruger Gun Site Scout - 2 of them closely priced. A 10rd mag fed bolt action .308 with a short barrel. Even though all are laminate stocks, the colors vary grey-green-black
*Uberti 357 revolvers- Found a pair of new ones with "Old West" finish. $325 each. I was getting horny over those. I'd take both if I could.
Lobsta, that's a very nice old school 30-30! Ejects out the top? Got any close up pictures?
*Ruger PC9- 3 of them at various prices. One came with 5 mags.
*Ruger Gun Site Scout - 2 of them closely priced. A 10rd mag fed bolt action .308 with a short barrel. Even though all are laminate stocks, the colors vary grey-green-black
*Uberti 357 revolvers- Found a pair of new ones with "Old West" finish. $325 each. I was getting horny over those. I'd take both if I could.
Lobsta, that's a very nice old school 30-30! Ejects out the top? Got any close up pictures?
Nate
Founding Father
I want a Ruger Scout pretty bad. Ive been eyeballing them HARD. Big reason I don't have one sitting in my case is: Why in the hell did they not make it to work with a typical M4/AR style mag? Kinda pisses me off. Keeping it proprietary mean paying out the nose for 10 round mags. And no use of extended ones. And I actually wish they could have come down just a hair on the price tag also. I'm in love with the concept, but for the price point you can pick up a very lightly used AR in 7.62x51/.308 with a WAY better trigger, and ability of semi auto firing lot-o-bullets. And with the right smaller mag, still take it out hunting. Just seems like they price themselves out of the market. Its priced higher then most typical (Remington 700, and Winchester 70) bolt action rifles, but only slightly less then a quite superior AR.
What were they priced at at the show???
What were they priced at at the show???
Nate
Founding Father
I have seen them for that cheap... Some were down near $650. Now mind you we are talking used AR's vs new Scout. BUT the AR's were in basically new condition. With the cost of ammo driving up (.308 ain't cheap) I see a lot of folks trying to ditch them for the smaller .223 variants. But If you are talking about hunting with the occasional plinking... I still think the ballistics of the .308 far outdo the .223
inski
New member
Make your own Scout.
The concept of the Scout is basically a mobile sniper rifle. Something you can use iron sights and a forward mount (both eyes open) scope. CZ and Savage have their versions also, for way more than what Ruger wants, with smaller mags. Somethin you can shoot and then run with and use at close range if the need ever occurred. You're suppose to mount the scope high with a view under base, but no one is setting them up that way. CZ calls theirs the counter-sniper rifle, but it is a scout type short barreled bolt rifle.
My son and I are building a Scout Mosin Negant. A friend of mine is doing his second K-31 Swiss Scout. Apparently the K-31 is a popular one to start with and people like the caliber. I might try a 16" Mosin if his 20 incher works well.
The concept of the Scout is basically a mobile sniper rifle. Something you can use iron sights and a forward mount (both eyes open) scope. CZ and Savage have their versions also, for way more than what Ruger wants, with smaller mags. Somethin you can shoot and then run with and use at close range if the need ever occurred. You're suppose to mount the scope high with a view under base, but no one is setting them up that way. CZ calls theirs the counter-sniper rifle, but it is a scout type short barreled bolt rifle.
My son and I are building a Scout Mosin Negant. A friend of mine is doing his second K-31 Swiss Scout. Apparently the K-31 is a popular one to start with and people like the caliber. I might try a 16" Mosin if his 20 incher works well.
inski
New member
-=Lobstah=-
Active member
I have a cheapy NCStar holo sight on a quick release AK mount on mine, if that counts
right on the money at 50 yards
Nate
Founding Father
I use a front and rear (on the rib) setup on my Remington 870. Its made by TruGlo, and stays on my longer hunting barrel. I absolutely love it. Makes picking up the front bread a breeze for skeet, but with the 2 dot rear, it can be very accurate with normal aiming.
Now that I have converted the 870 over to a pistol grip and 18" barrel (no rib) I plan on picking up a TruGlo clip on front sight.
Now that I have converted the 870 over to a pistol grip and 18" barrel (no rib) I plan on picking up a TruGlo clip on front sight.
